Discussing the Lit Blitz: Marianne Hales's "Deconstructing the Temple"

https://youtu.be/RYtysFK6mjU

Discussing the Lit Blitz, previous finalist Annaliese Lemmon talks with the finalists from our most recent contest about their work.

​This interview has been edited for clarity.

Annaliese Lemmon: Welcome everyone, to the Mormon Lit Lab podcast. I'm Annaliese Lemmon, your host for this series where we discuss the 15th annual Mormon Lit Blitz. Today, I'm joined by Marianne Hales, author of “Deconstructing a Temple.” Welcome, Marianne.

Marianne Hales: Hi! Thanks for having me.

Annaliese Lemmon: And could you introduce yourself and explain what your experience is with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Marianne Hales: Yeah. Well, I'm, as you said, Marianne Hales. I'm a poet and a playwright and an essayist and a lifelong Mormon. I've got pioneer heritage all the way back. My great- great- whatever great-aunt was the first baby born to the Mormons when they settled Utah. So, you know, I've got really deep Mormon cred.

Annaliese Lemmon: All right. And this piece is about the Provo Temple, which I attended when I went to BYU 20 years ago but haven't been back since, really. So what significance does that temple have in your life?

Marianne Hales: Well, my parents were temple workers there for decades until the Payson Temple was built and they split the temple district. And it was my temple when I was at BYU, of course, and I remember the escalator and its dangers for floor-length skirts. So you know, you have to be of a certain age to remember the escalators.

It's such an unusual temple in so many ways. There's the architecture, the escalator, and then there's the sheer volume of the work being done. Other temples have, like, three initiatory booths, and Provo had this long line, this whole complex of initiatory booths, and the veil went on for miles.

So it just has this scope and this busyness that is unique, I think.

Annaliese Lemmon: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I didn't remember that Provo had an escalator.

Marianne Hales: Oh really?

Annaliese Lemmon: Seattle has an escalator.

Marianne Hales: Does it still?

Annaliese Lemmon: It did last time I was there.

Marianne Hales: Oh, how funny. I don't even remember that, and I was a temple worker in the Seattle Temple for a number of years.

Annaliese Lemmon: All right. So the end of this poem had a really delightful turn. It can make the reader rethink their complaints about having the temple be reconstructed with a totally different floor plan. It kind of reminds me of my editing process, where I do literally rewrite everything when I compose another draft. You know, kill your darlings in order to find the true essence of who these characters are, what I'm trying to say, and things. So, what is your editing process like?

Marianne Hales: Well, I hand write my first drafts of everything I write, and I usually hand write the first or second revisions for poetry. For plays and essays, I rewrite as I'm typing them into Word and then manipulate them in there, but poetry's a little smaller and easier to do.

I also like to read poems out loud. I often figure out what works and what doesn't work by reading it at the open mic that I run. Or to my kids or... And I also have a writing workshop, poets that I've known for many years that I really trust. So that's really helpful for my process

Annaliese Lemmon: Mm-hmm. So how many drafts did this poem take, do you think?

Marianne Hales: Oh gosh. I do not know, 'cause I wrote it, you know, and you tinker with it. So I wrote it, and then I read it, and then I rewrote it, and then I did the workshop, and then I rewrote it. And then some time passed, and then I came back to it and looked at it again before I submitted it to the Mormon Lit Blitz.

So it's probably had four or five distinct drafts out there

Annaliese Lemmon: Okay. And on the other hand, my reaction when I read this poem is that, if you were to bring someone or something up to code, that doesn't necessarily mean that you have to make everything the same. I think it was a different article I read about the Provo Temple that describes the square shape as just being cookie cutter with all the similar architecture of the new temples. And what's your response to that?

Marianne Hales: Well, I think change is good. I do. I think that whenever you change something, there's a cost to that, and so you have to weigh whether or not what you're getting is worth the cost. So what we're getting from a square temple, as I understand it is more economical. They've upgraded the earthquake safety things and things like that.

And then I guess it's up to you individually whether the loss of the historical aspects and the very particular visual if that's worth it.

Annaliese Lemmon: Yeah, and then on the personhood side, like there are some character traits that can be really abrasive.

Marianne Hales: Right

Annaliese Lemmon: But then there's also things like neurodivergence and personality that you don't want everyone to get the same perspective on things

Marianne Hales: Right, right. 'Cause there's, I mean, when you're talking about bringing something up to code, those are just your very basic, basic things. You can have many, many differences and varieties within what is technically up to code.

Annaliese Lemmon: Very true. And I know that as an artist, I like to see the differences in how things are portrayed and the different emotions that different aspects can bring out. And so, you know, appreciate different details in the temples. Like in the Portland temple, there's an atrium that you can go inside in the waiting room, and it's just such a nice, peaceful place to go and ponder. Do you have any details in other temples that you enjoy?

Marianne Hales: Oh yeah, there are so many. It's really fun. So I like the way that there are different themes in the interiors in temples. Like in Payson, there are the quilt squares everywhere, and in Cedar City, there are juniper berries in various stages of maturity. And in Orem, there are the cherries and all the pink.

And then of course in the Manti Temple, I love the murals. And the celestial room of the Salt Lake Temple is so busy visually, and it's so crazy. I would never choose that. But it's so distinct for that temple and that time period, and I really hope that it hasn't been modernized out of existence in this latest remodel.

And the other thing the Manti Temple has is this really weird layout, and it has stairs here, stairs everywhere. And then there's this funky little short arch. I don't know if you've ever noticed it. It's where it used to be an exterior feature on the building, and then they built out so that they could have an elevator there.

So you're going through this sort of exterior feature to go and use the elevator, but it's so short that, I'm not a tall person, but I had to duck a little bit. And so we just decided that tall people have to use the stairs. They can't use the elevator unless they really wanna duck down.

And then I love the San Diego Temple 'cause I feel like it looks like it's just ready to sit on top of a wedding cake. It's like it's made of sugar or something. And then the Chicago Temple is the only temple I have driven by, I mean, right by, and not seen it. We were so lost trying to find it 'cause it's gray instead of white, and it's much lower profile. So I think that's kind of interesting. It blends in.

And then in the City Center Temple, which I love that temple. One time when I was in the cleaning crew, I got to go through this tiny little door and dust the oxen underneath the baptismal font, which was so crazy fun. And I like all the arches that they have in there and the windows, very beautiful.

I mean, the Provo City Center Temple is my temple. I'm in their district, and that's where I worked as a temple worker. But also, I just had such a connection to the tabernacle. So then when the fire happened and all of that emotion that went through it, it was so devastating. And so then to see it come back as a temple was really beautiful.

And, there's one thing with, like, when you're in the temple, it's hard to imagine where things in the tabernacle were because it's been completely redone. But they have one thing that they've kept from the old, well, there are a couple things. One is the podium in the chapel. That's from the original. But also the very super windy stairs that are between the endowment room and the celestial room, that area. And ironically, those are not up to code. But they were grandfathered in, and they kept them in. And I do, you do really feel the old tabernacle in that particular space.

That's the most tabernacle-y spot of the temple. But yeah, each of the temples. Of course, we'll see how this goes as more and more temples are the prefabs. But I think each temple has something very interesting to it.

Annaliese Lemmon: Yeah. I love hearing all those details.

Marianne Hales: Yeah

Annaliese Lemmon: That's great. So one question I like to ask everybody is, do you have a piece of media, any format, any genre that you recommend for our audience?

Marianne Hales: Oh, I have two. I have two actually.

Annaliese Lemmon: Mhm

Marianne Hales: I was gonna say it's sitting over there, but it's too far for me to go get. But I will pull it right here on my phone. This is an old book, that the handwriting in the front says, you know, 1915. But I couldn't find an actual publication date that's printed in it, but it's called Little Journeys in the Homes of American Statesmen, Book II.

And here are these little essays about the history, well, the one I'm reading is about Thomas Jefferson growing up. And can you indulge me to read about a page of it, 'cause it's really hilarious?

Annaliese Lemmon: Sure.

Marianne Hales: Okay. All right. Here it is. "Had Jefferson lived in a great city, he would have been an architect. His practical nature, his mastery of mathematics, his love of proportion, and his passion for music are the basic elements that make a Christopher Wren. But Virginia in 1765 offered no temptation to ambitions along that line. Log houses were, with a goodly crack, were quite good enough. And if the domicile proved too small, the plan of the first was simply duplicated.

“Yet a career of some kind young Jefferson knew awaited him. About this time, the rollicking Patrick Henry came along. Patrick played the violin, and so did Thomas. These two young men had first met on a musical basis. Some otherwise sensible people hold that musicians are shallow and impractical. And I know one man who declares that truth, honesty, and uprightness never dwelt in a professional musician's heart, and further, that the tribe is totally incapable of comprehending the difference between mum and tum." Whatever that means.

"But then this same man claims that actors are rascals who have lost their own characters in the business of playing they are somebody else. And yet I'll explain for the benefit of the captious that although Thomas Jefferson and Patrick Henry both fiddled, they never did and never would fiddle while Rome burned.

“Music was in them a pastime, not a profession." Let's see. And then Patrick ends up saying that he's going to join the bar, and Jefferson says, “’How long have you studied at it?’ ‘Oh, for six weeks last Tuesday,’ was the answer. Tradition was it that Jefferson advised Patrick to go home and study at least a fortnight more before making his application, but Patrick declared that the way to learn the law is to practice it, and he was surely right.

“Most young lawyers are really never aware of how little law they know until they begin to practice. But Henry was duly admitted, although George Wythe protested. Then Patrick went back home to tend bar, the other kind, for his father-in-law for a full four years. He studied hard and practiced a little times, and his is the only instance that history records of a barkeeper acquiring wisdom while following his calling. But for the encouragement of budding youth, I write it down.”

Sorry, that was longer than I thought, but it's very, very funny. So I really love that. If you can find it. I'm quite enjoying reading these little, pithy stories.

But then I have another one that is totally accessible if you happen to be in Utah, so not totally accessible. A little more accessible, and that is a play that is being done at BYU in October. It's called All the Beautiful Things. It runs October 16th to the 30th, and what it is, is it is a devised play where Alexandra Mackenzie Johns, and Shelley Graham took accounts from actual people about when they had fallen away from their religious upbringing, not just in our church, but in many different churches, and then stories of their coming back, and it's really, really beautiful, so thoughtful, and I would absolutely recommend anybody to go and see it.

Annaliese Lemmon: Okay, cool.

Marianne Hales: Yeah

Annaliese Lemmon: And what was the name of that play again?

Marianne Hales: All the Beautiful Things

Annaliese Lemmon: Okay. And the name of that journal again?

Marianne Hales: It's called Little Journeys to the Homes of American Statesmen

Annaliese Lemmon: Okay. I will see what I can find to link to those.

Marianne Hales: Yeah. Oh, I can send you a link about the BYU one for sure.

Annaliese Lemmon: All right, and I'll put those in the liner notes.

Marianne Hales: Yeah. Thanks.

Annaliese Lemmon: All right, and before you go, can you tell us about what other projects you have or places to find you online.

Marianne Hales: Well, you can find me online and stuff that I'm doing at mariannehales.com. That's just my regular website. I'm currently working on an adaptation of a young adult novel called Thoughts and Prayers by Brian Bliss, which is about trauma response after a school shooting. It's really a lovely book. And, yeah, that's the big thing that I'm working on right now.

Annaliese Lemmon: Excellent. And when would that be available to see, do you know?

Marianne Hales: Oh, wow, I wish I knew. I wish I knew. It's kind of, as you might imagine, there, it tells the story of three different students who shelter together during a school shooting, and it follows them a year after the shooting, and the things that are still going on for them. So it's kind of a big story with a lot of actors.

And, you know, when you're not Tom Stoppard, you can't really... It's harder to get out a new play that has that many actors in it. So we're working on it. We're submitting and submitting and submitting. So if anybody listening to this podcast would like to do a workshop production of this play, I'm more than happy to oblige.

Annaliese Lemmon: Okay. All right. Thank you so much. And is there anything else that you'd like to add?

Marianne Hales: No, no, just I love the Mormon Lit Blitz. It's so fun, and this makes it even more fun.

Annaliese Lemmon: Yeah, I love getting to know the different authors

Marianne Hales: Yeah

Annaliese Lemmon: and put a face to things. All right. Thank you so much, and we'll see you again.

Marianne Hales: Thank you.

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